Attention Subaru owners!! Subaru FAIL

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  • Boosted Euro
    Admin
    • Oct 2006
    • 27801

    Attention Subaru owners!! Subaru FAIL

    There are a couple sti/wrx owners on her, don't know if anyone had heard about this. I had not until now and it may be to late as we believe this to be what happened to the Forester. Not confirmed yet though.

    We have all heard the horror stories. You’re just driving down the road minding your own business and then boom your engine blows without warning.


    THE ISSUE..

    The oil pickup tube in the oil pan cracks at which time no oil gets pumped into the motor and .... boooom. Bye bye motor .


    Here is a thread on nasioc with reported cracked/broken pickups



    Most common vehicles with issues are,

    06 Sti with 51 reported
    04 Sti with 28 reported
    02-05 wrx with 36 reported

    There are 8 04 FTXs on the list also

    And some pictures

    This is a hole gallery of broken tubes 6 pages of pics





    Killer B Motorsport has what they believe to be.the.reason for the failures.


    Subaru EJ Series Motor Oil Pickups and Why They Fail

    I’ve gotten many requests for detailed information regarding the Oil Pickup, both OEM and the one we manufacture so I thought I’d post, what I know, for everyone to see. Specifically the questions seemed to be about the factory pickup and how/why it fails. Bear in mind this is information that has been presented to me and I am no scientist.
    *
    So on to the factory pickups…* They are brazed assemblies (it's kind of like welding, but more like soldering with temperatures much lower than welding ~800 degrees. The braze is the gold stuff you see between the pieces. Before the braze can be applied to the metal pieces you put this stuff called 'flux' on them. The flux makes sure that when the parts are heated up that the braze flows between and sticks to the metal parts properly. When operators, or machines, puts the flux on these parts to get them ready for brazing, the flux must AT LEAST cover the area that needs to be brazed together. So the application of the flux is typically quite extensive and sloppy.


    This application of flux and brazing seem to be done properly because I've never seen a braze joint failure. The problem is that the flux SHOULD be cleaned from the parts after the brazing process has been completed. We'll come back to this in a second.


    Now the tube, where the failures occur, is a simple thin (~.030") walled seam welded tube. A seam welded tube is basically a long skinny flat piece of metal that gets rolled into a tube and then welded where the edges meet. If you look at some of the pics in my link you'll see a distinct line that runs the length of the tube. That's the weld. Welded tubing has it's downside. While cheap, the weld can be the achilles heal if not done properly. In this situation it's a rough surface (when you look under a microscope), which means it can break or crack easier than if it were smooth, and more brittle than the non-welded area of the tube wall.


    OK so back to the braze... When not removed from certain process affected areas, specifically a hardened rough weld, it will get into any micro pock mark or pit when it's applied then heated, and a chemical reaction will occur. The flux reacts with the specific metal condition of the weld (harder and pits, etc..) and will etch into the pits making them deeper... this can also make the metal more brittle too. This is what ends up weakening the structure to the point of cracking. And the fact that it's bolted to the bottom of an engine doesn't help either.


    Speaking to vibrations and engines modified with bolt-ons. Engine vibration is not as much a contributing factor as you might initially think for a few reasons. The rotating assemblies are fairly well balanced and harmonically dampened. The oil pickup is submerged in oil, and filled with oil. This dampens the engine vibrations tremendously at the pickup. Some assume the pickup is just swinging around from the engine vibrations, but forget that the pickup is also in oil and full of oil. Now where high frequency vibrations do come from is the oil pump. Typically called ‘high frequency pressure pulsation’, these lower amplitude pulses can have a more pronounced affect because of harmonics that can build in the pickup assembly, possibly where a critical frequency may be being reached at certain RPMs (speed of the oil pump).


    So essentially, based on what I have experienced and learned, the OEM oil pickup failures are initiated from a chemical reaction from braze flux on the weld seam and these weakened areas are taken advantage of by oil pump induced high frequency vibrations.
    You ain't got no chance to beat it..like a man with no hands and a one inccchhhh .

    04 Forester XTI - Built Motor (weisco,eagle,sti,arp) FP Green Hta 330whp
    83 Rabbit GTI - Scrapped, Heart lives on in the 82
    82 Rabbit Diesel L custom - full GTI swap , built head lots of Poly
    90 Corrado G60 - First Love , awaiting winning lottery #'s

    Anti-Speedbump Society

  • Boosted Euro
    Admin
    • Oct 2006
    • 27801

    #2
    KILLER B also has a aftermarket PICKUP TUBE







    Even if the pickup tube in the forester is not broke I will probably be picking this up.
    You ain't got no chance to beat it..like a man with no hands and a one inccchhhh .

    04 Forester XTI - Built Motor (weisco,eagle,sti,arp) FP Green Hta 330whp
    83 Rabbit GTI - Scrapped, Heart lives on in the 82
    82 Rabbit Diesel L custom - full GTI swap , built head lots of Poly
    90 Corrado G60 - First Love , awaiting winning lottery #'s

    Anti-Speedbump Society

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    • Th3Juggernaut
      殺意の波動
      • Jul 2009
      • 8305

      #3
      dang that sux. what ended up breaking on the forester? bent cam or worse?
      Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they will learn why they fear the night.

      Comment

      • g20sleeperjdm
        Contributor
        • May 2007
        • 5648

        #4
        sucks.. no pun intended
        sigpic
        RIP: Jake Tetro (Fellow car junkie)

        Originally posted by Kevinoffroad4x4
        Wait a second. You own a modified Subaru and didnt get a Bren tune? I'm confused

        Comment

        • civic si hb
          Moderator
          • Apr 2007
          • 6431

          #5
          Never heard of these crappy shenanigans since I've had my Suby but some real good info and something to look into and save up to put money towards just to be on the safer side. Taking a chance and not being on the safe side could be much more pricier if it was to crack.... Good Info.
          2006 World Rally Blue WRX Limited, VF39 334WHP/340TQ

          A wise man once said,"Virginity is like a balloon......One prick and it's all gone"

          The Dong

          Comment

          • Boosted Euro
            Admin
            • Oct 2006
            • 27801

            #6
            I had never heard anything either until Scotty mentioned it. he has a legacy GT at The shop that just had it happen to, motor is junk . He said mine sounds just like it, my bottom end is gone. haven't had a chance to drop the pan to see if this is what happened but sure seems like it. I was driving on elm , not under boost , just cruising when it happened .

            After doing some searching and seeing all the people that have lost there motors do to this small issue I just wanted to share it with everyone. There are even people that found it early enough to replace and save there motor only to have it crack again 6 months later.
            You ain't got no chance to beat it..like a man with no hands and a one inccchhhh .

            04 Forester XTI - Built Motor (weisco,eagle,sti,arp) FP Green Hta 330whp
            83 Rabbit GTI - Scrapped, Heart lives on in the 82
            82 Rabbit Diesel L custom - full GTI swap , built head lots of Poly
            90 Corrado G60 - First Love , awaiting winning lottery #'s

            Anti-Speedbump Society

            Comment

            • civic si hb
              Moderator
              • Apr 2007
              • 6431

              #7
              Originally posted by Boosted Euro
              I had never heard anything either until Scotty mentioned it. he has a legacy GT at The shop that just had it happen to, motor is junk . He said mine sounds just like it, my bottom end is gone. haven't had a chance to drop the pan to see if this is what happened but sure seems like it. I was driving on elm , not under boost , just cruising when it happened .

              After doing some searching and seeing all the people that have lost there motors do to this small issue I just wanted to share it with everyone. There are even people that found it early enough to replace and save there motor only to have it crack again 6 months later.

              Do u know if those people replaced with another oem piece or did they crack again with the aftermarket "better quality" units?
              2006 World Rally Blue WRX Limited, VF39 334WHP/340TQ

              A wise man once said,"Virginity is like a balloon......One prick and it's all gone"

              The Dong

              Comment

              • Boosted Euro
                Admin
                • Oct 2006
                • 27801

                #8
                Oem

                first page of that thread on Nasioc I posted

                Failures reported by owners:

                fastwrx, 04 STI - TWICE!!, second failure on 06 STI pickup



                Eastoast06STI, 06 STI, TWICE!!!


                well, i just bought an 06 sti from a friend of mine, whos oil pick up tube broke at 48k miles and the entire motor, heads, turbo was all replaced. now, at 82k miles i lost oil pressure, immediatly shut it down and towed to my shop, pulled the pan and yup, another broken tube. and this one was the NEW version thats not suppose to break, oh well, im gettin a moroso pan and aftermarket pick up tube, no more subaru crap
                You ain't got no chance to beat it..like a man with no hands and a one inccchhhh .

                04 Forester XTI - Built Motor (weisco,eagle,sti,arp) FP Green Hta 330whp
                83 Rabbit GTI - Scrapped, Heart lives on in the 82
                82 Rabbit Diesel L custom - full GTI swap , built head lots of Poly
                90 Corrado G60 - First Love , awaiting winning lottery #'s

                Anti-Speedbump Society

                Comment

                • WTFWBBD?
                  OG Member
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 5386

                  #9
                  Damn man didn't know something happened to the car. That sucks.
                  Originally posted by gtmustang00
                  A 350fwhp civic will screw for sure and costs way less. I hate to say it on a forum like this cuz ill get #!#!#!#!, but my next build will be a extremely clean 2 door civic.

                  Comment

                  • Ballistic Motorsports
                    Patron
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 3403

                    #10
                    I see you found the thread . I am surprized there is not a class action lawsuit yet for the number of failures.

                    But yes it is common and I have one here with the failure. Only mod on the car is a exhaust and springs . otherwise stock
                    2013 Scion FR-s - DD/Shop Whore
                    1997 BMW M3 - New HillClimb/Track car/Projekt M
                    1995 Turbo Miata - sleeping right now
                    Facebook Page
                    "The corners are for fast drivers and straights are for fast cars."

                    THE MOD FATHER ****Support our economy and buy Genuine products from me , not ebay knock offs .....

                    Comment

                    • BLACK-OUT
                      OG Member #33
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 3957

                      #11
                      dang I am at 110k...

                      **** it at this point I am buying an Audi, right now it seem like a more reliable car
                      2008 Volkswagen .:R32

                      Comment

                      • Demetry
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2009
                        • 506

                        #12
                        out of all the cars made this is such a small percentage. I wouldnt worry too much about it. Just my thoughts
                        '08 GTI
                        '95 Miata M
                        F150

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                        • Matt Musto
                          Matt Musto Photography
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 6039

                          #13
                          lets see...never had any major issues with my evo or any of my friends evos...

                          now i have an STi as my DD and every other day, someone blows up or has some major issue with their subaru.

                          between maintenance cost and all these failures...i really question my subaru purchase some days...

                          my STi may become an EVO at the rate these issues keep popping up... lol
                          2013 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X GSR Aero SS - Daily
                          2013 Mitsubishi Outlander Sport Limited Edition - Wife uses Daily/Parts Hauler/Errands
                          2003 Honda S2000 - For Fun (for sale)

                          Matt Musto Photography
                          www.facebook.com/mattmustophotography

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                          • civic si hb
                            Moderator
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 6431

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Matty S2K
                            lets see...never had any major issues with my evo or any of my friends evos...

                            now i have an STi as my DD and every other day, someone blows up or has some major issue with their subaru.

                            between maintenance cost and all these failures...i really question my subaru purchase some days...

                            my STi may become an EVO at the rate these issues keep popping up... lol


                            You u think u get alot of #!#!#!#! now from people, lol....

                            Even if u are joking, that's why people always ask when is a Evo going to be a your next car?

                            Like Chad said of the reported numbers it's a very small amount to the amount of wrx/sti's sold. (ratio of sold vs reported issue) Granted the numbers are not always correct because of people that have not reported the issue. I would think the likelyhood of it happening is alot less likely than u think. Even so I would do it (the aftermarket upgrade) cause my suby is in for the long hall with me and would rather be safe than sorry come end of the day.
                            2006 World Rally Blue WRX Limited, VF39 334WHP/340TQ

                            A wise man once said,"Virginity is like a balloon......One prick and it's all gone"

                            The Dong

                            Comment

                            • Boosted Euro
                              Admin
                              • Oct 2006
                              • 27801

                              #15
                              Should be pulling my pan today.

                              $200 vs $3,000+ ..... I would have done the 200 if I knew about it.
                              You ain't got no chance to beat it..like a man with no hands and a one inccchhhh .

                              04 Forester XTI - Built Motor (weisco,eagle,sti,arp) FP Green Hta 330whp
                              83 Rabbit GTI - Scrapped, Heart lives on in the 82
                              82 Rabbit Diesel L custom - full GTI swap , built head lots of Poly
                              90 Corrado G60 - First Love , awaiting winning lottery #'s

                              Anti-Speedbump Society

                              Comment

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